: Who Baptized John the Baptist?-- deception with patrick j miron Women were ASSUMED and Included through the husband or father to be included in the OT Covenant. __________________ PJM

Jan 27, '13, 2:56 pm

PJM Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2008 Location: Centeral Florida Posts: 8,524 Religion: Informed, practicing RomanCatholic

Re: Who Baptized John the Baptist? Quote: =brb3;10279802]Yes, they had OT circumcision, for the males ....what was requirement for women ? Now, Trinitarian water baptism became the Norm on that first Pentecost / birth of NT Church. Women were ASSUMED and Included through the husband or father to be included in the OT Covenant. __________________ PJM http://working4christ2.wordpress.com Can we partake of God's GLORY and NOT partake of His PASSION? NO! A.B. Fulton Sheen: "The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it, and a lie is still a lie, even if everybody believes it."

#36     Feb 10, '13, 8:24 pm

Rozell1 Trial Membership Join Date: February 10, 2013 Posts: 1

Re: Who Baptized John the Baptist? In Acts, it says the apostles baptized in the name of Jesus; is it sufficient just to baptize in the name of Jesus or does it need the Trinitarian blessing? I was having this discussion with a protestant and it left me thinking if the disciples actually followed Jesus' commandment to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

#37     Feb 10, '13, 9:08 pm

philv New Member Join Date: April 9, 2012 Location: Washington Posts: 91 Religion: Catholic

Re: Who Baptized John the Baptist? Quote: Originally Posted by oneofmany Did John the Baptist get baptized? Who did it or did he baptize himself? When Jesus came to be baptized, why didn't John ask Jesus to baptize him? This is "way out there", but perhaps he was to be born at the time of Christ, he was already baptized before being born "in some way". Then he started baptizing later on. Or, he baptized himself in the waters while praying. But overall, I don't think scripture mentions.

#38     Feb 11, '13, 1:10 pm

1patrickj Banned Join Date: February 11, 2013 Posts: 3 Religion: catholic

Re: Who Baptized John the Baptist? thanks -- for this thread it is interesting to see how the development of false beliefs are developed, i have studied under a few Hebrew roots scholars--some of the answers show why Saint Paul warned about believing myths and traditions of men.. kind a like Valentine day, as some one how it came about and you get many different beliefs. duh?? maybe if it sounds good. it must be true.. it's been the tradition for years to believe --"fill-in-da-blank" so it must be true. Hermeneutics (/hɜrməˈnjuːtɪks/), broadly, is the art and science of text interpretation. Exegesis involves an extensive and critical interpretation of a text, especially of a holy scripture, such as of the Old and New Testaments of the Bible, the Talmud, the Midrash, the Qur'an, etc. An exegete is a practitioner of this science, and the adjectival form is exegetic. The word exegesis means "to draw the meaning out of" a given text. Exegesis may be contrasted with eisegesis, which means to read one's own interpretation into a given text. In general, exegesis presumes an attempt to view the text objectively, while eisegesis implies more subjectivity. One may encounter the terms exegesis and hermeneutics used interchangeably; however, there remains a distinction.

#39     Feb 11, '13, 3:47 pm

PJM Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2008 Location: Centeral Florida Posts: 8,524 Religion: Informed, practicing RomanCatholic

Re: Who Baptized John the Baptist? Quote: =Rozell1;10342275]In Acts, it says the apostles baptized in the name of Jesus; is it sufficient just to baptize in the name of Jesus or does it need the Trinitarian blessing? I was having this discussion with a protestant and it left me thinking if the disciples actually followed Jesus' commandment to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Matthew 28:19-20 AND JESUS SAY'S " [19] Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. [20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world" __________________ PJM http://working4christ2.wordpress.com Can we partake of God's GLORY and NOT partake of His PASSION? NO! A.B. Fulton Sheen: "The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it, and a lie is still a lie, even if everybody believes it."

#40     Feb 18, '13, 9:05 am

tommytom Banned Join Date: February 9, 2013 Posts: 8 Religion: protestant

Re: Who Baptized John the Baptist? Quote: Originally Posted by Rozell1 In Acts, it says the apostles baptized in the name of Jesus; is it sufficient just to baptize in the name of Jesus or does it need the Trinitarian blessing? I was having this discussion with a protestant and it left me thinking if the disciples actually followed Jesus' commandment to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. well my experience is that " if it does not lead to Jesus baptising you with the Holy Spirit" then all you did was get "wet" 1sam10, acts19,acts 10 is an example of what happens .. most protestants and roman catholics weem to "just get wet"

#41     Yesterday, 8:28 am

1answer Trial Membership Join Date: February 27, 2013 Posts: 3 Religion: charasmatic

Re: Who Baptized John the Baptist? Quote: Originally Posted by DaveBj See patrick457's post #10. The mikvah could have been considered a sort of baptism. And the word "baptism" doesn't necessarily mean "Christian baptism;" for starters, John's baptism was not a Christian baptism. I don't know. It just appeared in the Gospels, with John preaching repentance and then dipping repentant sinners in the waters of the Jordan River. thanks -- for this string -- to demenstrate the difficulity of recognizing that the mikvah- in the Hebrew tradition was was being performed by John - as also referenced in hebrews 6- where it references moveing on to the foundations o "baptisms" it is necessary to to read about the "hebrew roots" of this God made ceremony, to avoid developing imaginary and man made understanding of what the scripture means. as peter said "be mikvah in the water of repentence and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, this is why paul said in acts 19 what were you "baptised" or mikvah in? so he got them mikvah in the Holy Spirit-- and there is a difference-- between the two baptism's or mikvah- other wise -- why bother so -- obviously-- john the baptis -- what Mikvah in water as was the tridition in the religious ceremony-- i suggest that the readers of this string-- research and learn what the baptism or mikvah is all about-- so you don't become mis-lead or deceived

#42     Yesterday, 8:41 am

1answer Trial Membership Join Date: February 27, 2013 Posts: 3 Religion: charasmatic

Re: Who Baptized John the Baptist? Quote: Originally Posted by patrick457 The Essenes did not 'baptize' in the Christian sense. They partook of ritual immersions in a miqveh, but then again so did all Jews at the time. The only difference is that the Essenes apparently did it several times a day. thanks-- for the info-- but when did the "christian sense" of baptism develop -- what time period was that?-- maybe around 325 ad? or do you think it started on the "day of penecost" with peter ? when he said be baptised and repent and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit ?

#43     Yesterday, 9:05 am

Evan Regular Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 1,870 Religion: Catholic

Re: Who Baptized John the Baptist? Quote: Originally Posted by 1answer thanks-- for the info-- but when did the "christian sense" of baptism develop -- what time period was that?-- maybe around 325 ad? or do you think it started on the "day of penecost" with peter ? when he said be baptised and repent and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit ? It was certainly known at Pentecost, for there we see the sacrament of Baptism was used to bring the listeners into the Church. But the sacrament itself was commanded just before the ascension of the Lord when he informed his apostles how to baptize (the form the of the sacrament - with water[or it would not be baptism] and what words to use) and the intention - those following Christ (Christians) and those who were not.. ie it was an entrance rite to join the Church. BWT, traditionally AD preceeds a date (AD 325) whereas BC follows a date (200 BC). One in Latin, one in English. __________________ =========== Evan

#44     Today, 5:50 am

brb3 Regular Member Join Date: January 18, 2010 Posts: 3,190 Religion: catholic

Re: Who Baptized John the Baptist? Quote: Originally Posted by patrick457 I'm not totally sure (somebody correct me), but I believe that it would be after the Resurrection, when Jesus gave the command to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. As an aside (tongue-in-cheek moment), I have a hard time imagining Jesus using the Trintarian formula. "In the name of the Father, me, and the Holy Spirit"? Christ didn't personally use the formula ...scripture saying he didn't Baptize...only his disciples did. But, he, having received a Trinitarian Baptism ....jointly, from John & the Father,.....would of certainly conveyed the Trinitarian Formula to his disciples...so that John, realizing this, soon stopped his penultimate, non-trinitarian baptism, and let Christ & his 12 assume the ultimate Trinitarian NT (the Kingdom has come upon you) Baptism ....that Matthew's Gospel confirms Feb 11, '13, 3:47 pm PJM Senior Member   Join Date: August 31, 2008 Location: Centeral Florida Posts: 8,524 Religion: Informed, practicing RomanCatholic Re: Who Baptized John the Baptist? Quote: =Rozell1;10342275]In Acts, it says the apostles baptized in the name of Jesus; is it sufficient just to baptize in the name of Jesus or does it need the Trinitarian blessing? I was having this discussion with a protestant and it left me thinking if the disciples actually followed Jesus' commandment to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Matthew 28:19-20 AND JESUS SAY'S " [19] Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. [20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world" __________________ PJM http://working4christ2.wordpress.com Can we partake of God's GLORY and NOT partake of His PASSION? NO! A.B. Fulton Sheen: "The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it, and a lie is still a lie, even if everybody believes it."   #40     Feb 18, '13, 9:05 am tommytom Banned   Join Date: February 9, 2013 Posts: 8 Religion: protestant Re: Who Baptized John the Baptist? Quote: Originally Posted by Rozell1 In Acts, it says the apostles baptized in the name of Jesus; is it sufficient just to baptize in the name of Jesus or does it need the Trinitarian blessing? I was having this discussion with a protestant and it left me thinking if the disciples actually followed Jesus' commandment to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. well my experience is that " if it does not lead to Jesus baptising you with the Holy Spirit" then all you did was get "wet" 1sam10, acts19,acts 10 is an example of what happens .. most protestants and roman catholics weem to "just get wet"   #41     Yesterday, 8:28 am 1answer Trial Membership   Join Date: February 27, 2013 Posts: 3 Religion: charasmatic Re: Who Baptized John the Baptist? Quote: Originally Posted by DaveBj See patrick457's post #10. The mikvah could have been considered a sort of baptism. And the word "baptism" doesn't necessarily mean "Christian baptism;" for starters, John's baptism was not a Christian baptism. I don't know. It just appeared in the Gospels, with John preaching repentance and then dipping repentant sinners in the waters of the Jordan River. thanks -- for this string -- to demenstrate the difficulity of recognizing that the mikvah- in the Hebrew tradition was was being performed by John - as also referenced in hebrews 6- where it references moveing on to the foundations o "baptisms" it is necessary to to read about the "hebrew roots" of this God made ceremony, to avoid developing imaginary and man made understanding of what the scripture means. as peter said "be mikvah in the water of repentence and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, this is why paul said in acts 19 what were you "baptised" or mikvah in? so he got them mikvah in the Holy Spirit-- and there is a difference-- between the two baptism's or mikvah- other wise -- why bother so -- obviously-- john the baptis -- what Mikvah in water as was the tridition in the religious ceremony-- i suggest that the readers of this string-- research and learn what the baptism or mikvah is all about-- so you don't become mis-lead or deceived   #42     Yesterday, 8:41 am 1answer Trial Membership   Join Date: February 27, 2013 Posts: 3 Religion: charasmatic Re: Who Baptized John the Baptist? Quote: Originally Posted by patrick457 The Essenes did not 'baptize' in the Christian sense. They partook of ritual immersions in a miqveh, but then again so did all Jews at the time. The only difference is that the Essenes apparently did it several times a day. thanks-- for the info-- but when did the "christian sense" of baptism develop -- what time period was that?-- maybe around 325 ad? or do you think it started on the "day of penecost" with peter ? when he said be baptised and repent and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit ?   #43     Yesterday, 9:05 am Evan Regular Member   Join Date: May 19, 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 1,870 Religion: Catholic Re: Who Baptized John the Baptist? Quote: Originally Posted by 1answer thanks-- for the info-- but when did the "christian sense" of baptism develop -- what time period was that?-- maybe around 325 ad? or do you think it started on the "day of penecost" with peter ? when he said be baptised and repent and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit ? It was certainly known at Pentecost, for there we see the sacrament of Baptism was used to bring the listeners into the Church. But the sacrament itself was commanded just before the ascension of the Lord when he informed his apostles how to baptize (the form the of the sacrament - with water[or it would not be baptism] and what words to use) and the intention - those following Christ (Christians) and those who were not.. ie it was an entrance rite to join the Church. BWT, traditionally AD preceeds a date (AD 325) whereas BC follows a date (200 BC). One in Latin, one in English. __________________ =========== Evan   #44     Today, 5:50 am brb3 Regular Member   Join Date: January 18, 2010 Posts: 3,190 Religion: catholic Re: Who Baptized John the Baptist? Quote: Originally Posted by patrick457 I'm not totally sure (somebody correct me), but I believe that it would be after the Resurrection, when Jesus gave the command to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. As an aside (tongue-in-cheek moment), I have a hard time imagining Jesus using the Trintarian formula. "In the name of the Father, me, and the Holy Spirit"? Christ didn't personally use the formula ...scripture saying he didn't Baptize...only his disciples did. But, he, having received a Trinitarian Baptism ....jointly, from John & the Father,.....would of certainly conveyed the Trinitarian Formula to his disciples...so that John, realizing this, soon stopped his penultimate, non-trinitarian baptism, and let Christ & his 12 assume the ultimate Trinitarian NT (the Kingdom has come upon you) Baptism ....that Matthew's Gospel confirms words thereof. words thereof.